Although I disagree with Calvin's acronym TULIP on certain points, I'd like to use it as an opportunity to discuss what I believe about the biblical concepts and ideas it explores.
T - Total Depravity - For Calvin, this also meant total inability and original sin. I don't believe in original sin since this idea appears nowhere in the Bible; however, I believe that the curse of death is passed down from Adam to all who opt into it by sinning (Rom 5:12). Calvin believed man is completely unable to choose right, let alone know right from wrong. This is no where in the Bible; in fact, Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and everyone has an idea of what's right from wrong - it's threaded in our nature. The Bible says that there is no sin where there is no knowledge of the law and that a man's conscience is a law unto itself (Rom 2:14-15, Rom 5:13, Rom 3:20) which God uses to judge Gentiles (non-Jews). As far as man being totally sinful before the law, the answers are simple: no man is righteous (Rom 3:10), no man is good (Luke 18:18-19), and anything not done from faith (in God, for Him) is sin (Rom 14:23).
U - Unconditional Election - Calvin believes that God chooses some for heaven and some for hell based upon nothing at all. In fact, he denies any freewill period. God just makes us choose Him.
I believe in conditional election. God predestines those who trust Him to be sanctified and glorified. He predestines those He calls to be justified. If all who are called are justified, how does God choose who to enlighten or call? I believe this is based upon the condition of the heart. I'm not talking about merit. I'm talking about pride and humility. God gave the Pharisees parables so they wouldn't understand the gospel and get saved because of the hardness of their hearts (Mat 13:10-17). All throughout Proverbs it talks about God lifting up the humble and resisting the proud. Here are some illustrations:
-Peter fell down on his knees and said to Jesus, "Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord."
Later on, Jesus tells Peter that the Father has granted Him enlightenment (Mat 16:17). Peter writes later on in a letter this great truth from Pro 3:34 - 1 Pet 5:5 - God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
-Luke 18:10-14 - Jesus tells a story about a tax collector and Pharisee. The tax collector beats his breast and cries out for mercy to God, but the Pharisee is proud and thanks God that he's not like the tax collector. Jesus proceeds to say that the tax collector walks away justified, but the Pharisee walks out condemned. He then sums it up with a brilliant statement: every man that exalts himself will be humbled, and he that humbles himself will be exalted.
-Luke 23:39-43 - One of the criminals on the cross beside Jesus confesses to Jesus that he deserves his punishment, says that Jesus has done nothing wrong, and asks Jesus (calling him Lord) to take him into his kingdom (demonstrating enlightenment) and Jesus of course promises him he will be with him in paradise. The criminal was justified for his humility which the Father granted enlightenment for which produced faith.
L - Limited Atonement - Calvin said that Jesus only died for the elect. This, of course, is false according to John 3:16 and especially 1 John 2:2. However, whereas the atonement is total in its potential and intention, it is limited in its effect.
I - Irresistible Grace - Calvin believes that God's grace is irresistible to the person who completely understands it. I would have to agree.
P - Perseverance of the Saints - Calvin believes that anyone who is a true Christian will persevere to the end. Although I don't consider this very dangerous necessarily, I don't believe it personally. I do believe in preservation of the saints however (once saved, always saved).
Also, I believe that there will be some first fruits of salvation in a person's life (love, joy, peace, etc.), but that doesn't mean they will continue to bear fruit.
That's a brief summary of what I believe concerning TULIP. I hope this helps someone understand God a little better.
Michael-
ReplyDeleteI will respond to each of your summaries individually.
TOTAL DEPRAVITY
You are correct in saying that Total Depravity is synonymous with Total Inability and Original Sin. However, your argument that such doctrines are never taught in the Bible simply doesn't hold up. Consider the following Scriptures:
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalm 51:5; ESV)
Even from the time of his conception, before he had personally sinned, David identifies himself with sin and iniquity, not innocence.
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked … and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (Ephesians 2:1, 3; ESV)
In this passage Paul makes it very clear that we are dead in our trespasses and sins, not simply because we have chosen Adam's curse by our own personal sin, but because we are BY NATURE children of wrath. This indicates something much deeper that the curse of personal sin. This indicates that because of Adam's sin, we are all sinful by NATURE. This is the doctrine of Original Sin, taught clearly by the apostle Paul.
Another statement that I take issue with is, "Calvin believed man is completely unable to choose right, let alone know right from wrong. This is no where in the Bible."
The bottom line is that Calvin never taught that man does not know right from wrong. Rather, he taught that everything that natural man does (even if he thinks it's right!), is actually sin. This is because natural man has no faith, and as you quoted above, Romans 14:23 is clear that "whatever does not proceed from faith is sin" (ESV).
You are correct in saying that Calvin taught that man is completely unable to choose right. However, you are wrong in disagreeing with this. This can be clearly seen from Romans 8:8, "Those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (ESV).
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
I have already dealt with your misunderstanding of God's hardening of people's hearts, and your misinterpretation of Romans 9, in a post on that particular essay. Other than that, I would simply direct you, and anyone else who reads this, to my own discussion of Unconditional Election -> http://bit.ly/heDAa
(continued from above)
ReplyDeleteLIMITED ATONEMENT
Since you have failed to provide any meaningful argumentation, but rather a couple proof-texts which upon further examination can be better understood, I have very little to say except to again link to my blog -> http://bit.ly/JDrrh
IRRESISTIBLE GRACE
I find it interesting that you agree with this point, but take issue with Total Depravity and Unconditional Election. I would suggest that it is probably because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of Irresistible Grace. But, since you have provided little explanation of your understanding of this doctrine, that fact remains unclear.
PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS
Regarding your assertion that man can be genuinely saved, yet not bear any fruit, I would recommend these Scriptures:
Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. (Matthew 3:8-10 ESV)
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.(Matthew 7:15-20 ESV)
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.(John 15:1-8 ESV)
Brandon, thank you for your response.
ReplyDeleteOn Total Depravity, I do believe in the sin nature, but I believe that we opt into it when we choose to sin. Otherwise, I don't believe our sin nature would grow and have dominion over us. How else could God hold us responsible? We don't sin because we are born with a nature that forces us to, otherwise we couldn't be held responsible.
However, once we feed the nature by sinning, it grows into something that cannot be controlled. As a result, God's Spirit has to change us with a new nature urging us to what's right.
On Unconditional Election, I stand my ground and replied on the other post.
On Limited Atonement, I stand my ground that the Bible is clear on it.
On Irresistible Grace, nevermind...
On Perseverance of the Saints, the passage in Matthew 7 is Jesus explaining to His disciples that they will know who the false prophets are by the fruit they produce; this has nothing to do with this point.
In the passages in John 15 and Matthew 3, Jesus is addressing the Jews, telling them that if they abide in his teachings, which is by faith, they will have fruit; otherwise, they will lose the place of privilege they once had as His chosen people to bear fruit. This is also talked about in Romans 11. The Jews were losing their place of privilege to represent God on Earth and it was being given to those who have faith in Jesus.
Again, this has nothing to do with this point.
Above all, I would encourage you to stop following men like Calvin and realize that they're fallible. Consider that maybe Calvin was wrong on some stuff.
Michael-
ReplyDeleteI have nothing to add because Brandon already said it all. However in response to your encouraging us "stop following men like Calvin and realize that they're fallible" and to "Consider that maybe Calvin was wrong on some stuff."
Just to clear things up... I don't follow Calvin, I follow scripture. Scripture is clear about these issues. Call it Calvinism, call it TULIP if you want to. But they are found clearly in scripture. I find it interesting that Brandon's comment is FILLED with scriptures and your response to that comment is simply re-stating your opinion which is contrary to the scriptures he cited. Something is wrong there.
As far as considering that Calvin was wrong on some stuff... I have... and he was wrong on infant baptism.
Well you guys are entitled to your beliefs.
ReplyDeleteDear Brandon,
ReplyDeleteI believe you are confused about the proper interpretation of scripture.
Let's start with Psalms 51:5 "brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother concieved me." Meaning that from the moment of conception a person possesses a sinful nature.
Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned."
Now lets look at Ephesains 2:1-3 "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
This is saying because of our sinful nature, we will sin, and are by nature children of wrath, because of our sinful nature, but God has given each man a knowledge of good and evil, man knows when he sins. We are made in the image of God and each man has a God given conscious. This was a result of Adam and Eve eating for the tree, of the knowledge of good and Evil. If we did not have a free will to obey or disobey God, then why does he hold our sinful actions against us? Why in the old Testament did God get angry with the Israelites when they disobeyed Him?
Romans 2:14-16 makes this abundantly clear "for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Yes, we are all sinners, because of our sinful nature, and we will all sin. But a baby, though born with a sinful nature, is not held accountable for that sin until they come to an age of accountability or understanding. God does not comdemn a baby to hell if it dies at child birth.
Calvins view of God is very warped, he says God choses man for Heaven or Hell not based upon anything about that person; that is not the God I know from scripture. The Bible says God is love, and that He is full of mercy and grace. God gives each person a chance to accept or reject Him, and as man humbles himself, seeing his sinful condition before a Holy God, and then is willing to confess that he can do nothing to save himself, God then gives him the faith to believe.
I hope you find this helpful, because Calvin's view of God is not Biblical, and can be very distructive.